Dialoguekenny is my Cousin
A candid conversations about Hip-hop with twin cousinsMike Nicholls a.k.a Chris: Cool, man. So we’re here, we’re finally doing this! To get this started let folks know your name and how we’re related. [laughter]
Kenneth Jones a.k.a. Kenny: That’s easy enough then. My name is Kenneth Jones. I go by Kenny to the family. Mike Nicholls is my cousin, but we know him as Chris, sometimes I call him Criso. He’s one of my favorite cousins. This guy has really been there for me through thick and thin and also definitely taught and introduced me to a lot, it’s too many words to describe our relationship, but I just want to let you know, man, I love you, seriously do. We call ourselves twin cousins because we were born three weeks apart from each other. But definitely have a lot of life experiences with this dude.
Yeah man, appreciate that dude. My name is Mike but known as Chris with the fam and Kenny is my cousin. [laughter]
First cousin!
I may name it that, I may name it Kenny is my cousin, you know what I’m saying?
That would be like a dope, that’s kind of a dope title for you.
Dope.
Yeah, man. So yeah, definitely appreciate you doing it. I love you as well, man. We’ve been connected for like, damn near, ever since I can remember.
So we’re born around the same time and I always wonder what was happening musically in the time where we were born. So if you’re in Miami, right? Have you ever researched what was happening in Miami in 1976? Like what music was playing?
[chuckle]
No, not at all. I mean, unless I’m getting the information from my mom. Right? But it’s funny how you referenced that as, you know, I was born in Miami, but I was back and forth living with our grandmother and my mom. So that was one of the key things as far as my introduction with my cousins. One of the things I wanted to bring up though, in Miami, I think before I even got into South Carolina, you know, I was around 6, 7 years old and I was introduced to hip-hop, but not really knowing what that music was.
In elementary school, I may have been in first grade. They had a concert at the end of the school year, they threw a little party and I remember this guy DJing at this function and it didn’t sound like music of my mom or my forefathers. It didn’t sound like that. It was something different and I remember him playing it
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He probably was in his 20s at the time, I would say. But definitely he looks, he kind of reminded me of what Whodini looked like back in those days, where, you know, big hats, just like he reminded me like he could have been one of the group one of the members.
So that was my first introduction to hip-hop, not even, or at least to the music as well. Not even knowing or seeing graffiti on the walls as I walked from home to school.
So you didn’t move to South Carolina until you were 6 or 7?
As far as living in South Carolina? Yes, because I mean, when I was a kid, or at least a baby, a toddler so I think maybe within like, I want to say four to six months, I moved to Summerton for a little bit, stayed with my grandmother, or stay with our grandmother, I still say my grandmother. Our grandmother.
[laughter]
Yeah, she’s mine too, dude.
I know, right?! I gotta check that sometimes like, “there’s no other grandkids just for me, right?”
Well, it’s funny. I mean that’s a relationship, right? I mean, when you think about it, I felt like you and grandma were pretty close. “This is my grandma, like this is...
Your MY grandma, yeah.
[laughter]
So basically you were in Miami in 1982 and so by that time hip-hop is definitely happening.
Yeah
I’m just curious too at that point everybody was basically playing New York-based hip-hop right, it wasn’t really until maybe Ice-T that we started hearing rap from a different region? “Oh yeah, I’m gonna do this style of rap based upon where I live in California.”
Well, it’s funny because when you ask the question, “when did you get introduced to hip-hop?” and I was like, okay, I usually tell the story. It’s all based on you and our older cousin Michael.
But when I started to think back and you mentioned Miami I said, oh, that’s when I got really introduced to. When I came home this is probably where I learned this dance, I used to do called “the dog,” remember? I don’t know if you remember, I used to prop myself up against the bar in the kitchen.
Yeah. Yeah. [laughter]
I would do the dog. Yeah.
That’s right. I remember, that was yours.
Everybody in our family had a dance move. That was my dance. I couldn’t dance well, but I could do that...
Oh my gosh. Man.
And rock it, yeah, the dog, yeah.
Oh my, yeah, I remember that we would have breakdancing competitions at Grandma house outside on the linoleum. I would be doing a head spin or whatever. Then you would try to do what I’m doing and be like yeah… you can’t do it like me...
[laughter]
Dude, who you telling? Talk about hurt feelings? You know.
Oh my God.
Our cousin Michael will diss me. Like, nah, “you can’t do it like Chris and you gotta step up!” But Michael could do it all, pop and lock, basically everything he was like...
Dude, Michael was a B-boy, in Summerton South Carolina! He had the Adidas shoes, the boom box, he would draw graffiti, and he would dance. You know what I’m saying? You know most of our aunts and uncles moved to New York, right? But they send their kids to the South during the summer. So we get direct access to what is going on in New York.
What’s going on, exactly. Exactly. And it was amazing to have that kind of connectivity because now we brand the regions, right? We understand what’s going on, so we like to be in tune with it, right? ‘Cause we hear though on the radio a little bit it depends on, you know, like I said, but Michael being from Summerton and he was really in tune with the B-boy. I mean Run DMC was like his favorite group, you know?
Yeah. Yeah.
So, yeah, he was very, and I’m pretty sure you said the same, he was very influential to our introduction to hip-hop especially when we talk about music like you said the breakdance. Because I remember those breakdancing battles and I always lose but I was trying something, you know? But I just couldn’t move my body like that much.
They call him MIAMI!So when did you realize that 2 Live Crew was from Miami? And do you remember how old you were when you learned about them?
I’m trying to think. I think this is right before I moved to Charlotte. So I moved to Charlotte when I was 11 going on 12. I was going to sixth grade. So I think Michael mentioned something to me about what these guys are saying, what’s the name? Oh, “Pop that, pop that p*ssy,” right? And, “Throw that D,” and I was like, what is that? And this is, you know, I heard of the song, announced I heard of the song but heard of him talking about it. And I was like, hmm.
So when I moved to Charlotte people asked me where I’m from. I was like, I couldn’t really say I’m from Summerton. Nobody knows Summerton.
[laughter]
So I said Miami, because technically I was born there. So they started calling me ‘Miami.’ That was my nickname in Charlotte. From seventh grade to like 9th, I was known as Miami.
Wow dude. Yeah.
My homeboy Rick, he gave me that, he was like maybe a year or two older than me. Rick told this girl in school that, “Yo, that’s Miami right there, that’s Miami right there,” and she started screaming, “Oh, that’s Miami, that’s Miami.”
Then that’s when I started to really get into 2 Live Crew ‘cause he kind of, I think Rick kind of like, “Hey, yeah, your boy is doing something down in Miami.” So I started looking at 2 Live Crew...
“Oh, if you’re Miami, then you must know about Luke (Luther Campbell) from 2 Live Crew.”
Exactly. I started representing that, Chris. I gotta start!
[laughter]
Okay, alright.
I can’t say I’m from Miami and I don’t know anything about Luke, you know what I mean? So.
You know, it’s so funny because I remember that you would always wear sports gear from Miami.
Miami Heat.
Whether it’s the Dolphins...
Yeah.
When you first started listening to 2 Live Crew, did you actually like the music?
You know what, I did. Because this was the time when Miami Bass was really hitting.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I’m talking about hitting not only in Miami, but in Charlotte and in most of the south.
Yes.
When guys would drive around in the car, all you heard was bass music. So Miami was critical about their bass. That actually gravitated me more than the lyrics.
To be honest I didn’t know what they’re talking about, I didn’t understand.
Well, if you think about it then, there’s an argument that Miami is the birth of southern hip-hop.
It is.
I don’t think Atlanta really popped off yet in the late 80’s. I think there was MC Shy D, I think he was or he was around, but his sound was probably more similar to the Miami bass. I feel like Miami bass music is really the birth of southern hip-hop.
Well, MC Shy D came from Miami. I mean he was on Luke Records. He was on Luke Skyywalker records, that’s how he got his break. Right?
Oh.
It’s funny that you said it because we got Miami and then there’s Houston. ’Cause remember Chris, Geto Boys was making some noise in Houston.
So those two regions were really representing the south back then.
I remember the Geto Boys heavy during that time...
Remember our cousin Little Junior used to play Geto Boys? He had a Samurai Suzuki
He sure did.
I would listen to it in his backseat and I was like, “God, what’s this?”
I was so scared of Geto Boys. As a kid, I was like, “who is this little dude…” meaning Bushwick Bill
[laughter]
Oh my God. But you’re right though. In Charlotte, it was either 2 Live Crew or Geto Boys.
That’s what it was.
I remembered in Charlotte going to those teen-clubs, like Club Expressions or BB Jamz and hearing, “Don’t stop, get it, get it – let me see that doo doo brown!”
Yep. So, like I said, that was that representation of me getting into Luke, let me listen to 2 Live. Which eventually led me to Poison Clan. Let me really get at everything that Luke’s dropping. I’m picking it up! Right?
I even thought that Poison Clan was more, for lack of a better word, more political or not as raunchy as 2 Live Crew maybe, ’cause I associate them with the X Clan. I thought they were more conscious, you know what I’m saying? But I never really got into Poison Clan. You told me about them, but I never researched it beyond that. ’Cause I think at that point I always started to get into my bag of like, oh, I think I like this east coast New York style, this Eric B. & Rakim, you know what I’m saying?
Yeah.
But I feel like for us though, our convergence was Kid ‘n Play.
Oh, yeah.
That was like our space where we both were okay, this is Chris and Kenny right here.
I remember going to Camelot Music and buying the album, right? And I think did they have one or was it two? I think I was able to get two, right?
Mm-hmm.
Because I think they had two on the shelf. You bought one, I bought one, right? And this is a time where you and I always competed against each other. “Who got the newest tape, the newest information, right?” So, how are we gonna compete against each other if we both got the tape? Well, okay, you learn side A, I learn side B [laughter] and we’ll come back together to see who knows their side the most!
The Summer of ‘98, Kenny and me, Summerton SCI remember that time where our cousin Melodie took us to the mall in Columbia SC. [laughter] And we’re like, I bought, I still have that... Do I still have that cassette, man?
I bought Eric B. & Rakim’s, Let the Rhythm Hit ’Em, which I still have that cassette dude.
Really?
And you bought 2 Live Crew’s Banned from America, something like that, right?
Yeah, Banned in the USA. This is the summer of 1990. That was 1990, dude.
At what point did we meet up in our stylistic choices? Is it after we moved to Atlanta when we started liking similar hip-hop? I think I introduced you to more of the Boot Camp Clik vibe and Black Moon. But then you took it someplace else with Lootpack and Madlib, you know what I’m saying?
Yeah, I did.
You put me on to Alkaholiks, which was once again the party vibe, kinda similar to 2 Live Crew but not as sexually explicit.
It was a party vibe.
Then because of Alkaholiks, I guess that is how you learned about Lootpack and Madlib.
Sure. Exactly. They opened up those doors as far as me listening to Lootpack, Madlib, Xzibit, you know, go on and on the whole tree, right? The Pharcyde and all that stuff. But I wanna say this Chris, when I moved back to South Carolina in ’91 that’s when I started to experience other styles of hip-hop, at least independent of you, right? Because you and Michael were that main influence as far as exposure, like De La Soul and A Tribe Called Quest, you put me onto that. You put me on a lot of these groups that I wouldn’t be privy to or listen to at the time. Our cousin Michael put me on to like Biz Markie and the Skinny Boys and all of that stuff.
I’m gonna go back a little bit to ’89. One rapper I found by myself was, well actually I was in the barbershop, [laughter] was Big Daddy Kane.
That’s right.
Yeah. So this is what I’m telling you, Chris, how we compete against each other. Because we are always trying to say, Hey, I got the newest thing out. So I was in the barbershop getting my hair cut. And this guy, and I think he was from New York, he came to the barbershop and the barber asked him, said, “Hey, who’s the hottest guy in New York?” And the guy was like, Big Daddy Kane. And I’m saying to myself, “Who is that?” You know? So, now I’m listening to other hip-hop outside of 2 Live.
I remember my mom taking me to the mall. I went to a little record store and I saw Big Daddy Kane’s album, Long Live the Kane. I said, “Okay, I’m gonna get this.” That kind of changed my whole trajectory of the kind of hip-hop I’m listening too, ‘cause that Big Daddy can spit, you know!?
Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God...
Okay, so that transition helped. So by the time I moved back to South Carolina some friends of mine put me on this college radio station at South Carolina State. I think they played hip-hop music, maybe every Saturday, every Sunday. It was in a certain window of time. I got introduced to the Leaders of the New School, with Busta Rhymes, Pete Rock & CL Smooth, and even Nas. Back in those days you had them tapes, and you made sure to hit the record button. So you could time it just right to avoid the commercials.
I remember buying the Nas’s Illmatic album during my high school’s senior trip to Orlando in ‘94. It was either that or OutKast. I couldn’t afford to buy both I only had like $10. [chuckle] I bought Nas because one I heard him on the college radio station and two, I was trying to impress my classmates because they weren’t really up on Nas yet.
It’s like you went on this whole journey of discovery from 91 to 94. Which at that point we’re both living in Atlanta and basically listening to similar hip-hop music.
Similar music. Yeah, yeah.
So we’re both living in Atlanta. You were at Morehouse and I went to the Art Institute. Yo, we went to see Notorious B.I.G. at the Garage and I remembered that Black Moon was performing at the same show.
They were.
Yo, after the show was over Rockness Monsta was on the stage chilling and you went up there to chop it up with him. You had no fear. You were like, “I’m gonna go up there and talk to him.”
Yeah.
At that time you’re getting all types of hip-hop going through Atlanta.
’Cause OutKast was just starting to really blow. ATliens just came out around that time we lived there, just when all the people from the east coast were moving down to Atlanta, this is when even Too Short moved there from Oakland.
It was like Atlanta was this new market and that’s where you saw the influx, right? Of course with the beginnings of SoSo Def and the LaFace records, they kinda helped bring those artists in. I remember when OutKast came out, prior to me coming to Atlanta, I didn’t know where they were from. I’m thinking that these guys are in Oakland, ‘cause I’m thinking these are Souls of Mischief type of guys, their brainchild. That’s where I was drawing it from.
You know what’s so crazy? When they came out I didn’t know where Souls of Mischief were from, ‘cause their first video was shot in the woods. I’m like, they must be from the south. Like I didn’t know where... So that’s crazy, dude. Listen, both OutKast and Souls of Mischief had their video in the woods, the first video.
That’s what I’m getting at.
[laughter]
I remember one time you came to South Carolina, I think during a school break. This was ’94, summer before I came to Morehouse. And you said, “Yo man, yeah, I saw Tupac at the club.” I said, “What?” And you said Tupac hollered, ‘I was locked up for 30 days and I got 30 rhymes. So let’s go!’” And my mouth just dropped. And I was like, “Oh shit, hopefully, when I get to Atlanta, I’ll be able to see him.” Never saw him in any shape or form.
I cannot believe I forgot I saw Tupac perform.
Dude! You saw Tupac and Biggie, ain’t that amazing? ‘Cause I’m like, you saw Tupac and you weren’t really even into his music like that.
The first show we went to together was Biz Markie and Nas. And I remember going in the club, I was like, ‘I never been to a club like this before.’ So I’m looking around, I’m like, wow, this is amazing. That’s what I’m saying to myself, I never told you this, but I’m saying to myself, wow, this is amazing. And to see Nas on the performance, well, you know how the incident went because we didn’t realize that Killer Mike was in the audience too.
Yeah, yeah.
That was the first show you and I went to, man.
It’s so funny, some friends of mine joked with me because I don’t have Tupac in my top 50 list. They were like, "You ain’t got ’Pac?!” Now, if I had to pick the top 50 rappers of all time, yes. But this is my personal list.
We just covered a lot, man. But feel like we could keep going. [laughter]
I know, right? This has been a joy, dude.
The same here, man. Peace and love to you, man, okay?
Love you, too, man.
All right, peace.
Peace.
